Ultimatum: The Final Proposition

Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:37 am

So in reality, i didn't lie about ANYTHING, so....doesn't that make YOU the liar?

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Steve_Smith_#12 · Team Captain Number of posts: 222 Registration date: 2007-09-12

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

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Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:39 am

Fact is, with all do respect to you both, over the last few days, i've witnessed ALOT of "tough guy talk" from Nerd, as though he was the one in charge, while you disregarded the advice and concern of your fellow Administrators.

This, what's going on right now, is another direct result of that.

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Ruskie89 · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:40 am

SoxNats08 wrote:

Ruskie89 wrote:

I believe that if communication was more open, if Sox didn't rush to do simulations and such, and simply confirmed, got the trades processed, etc. We wouldn't be having an issue. These last two times (Week 1 and Preseason) was the result of Sox wanting to sim on THAT particular night. Give GMs adequate warning, and we wouldn't have these problems.

I prefer option A, but with this in addition: More communication. More TIME to get those deadlines done. I'm not talking about resigning or any of that, I'm talking, when you decide to sim, just GIVE the GMs a heads up of adequate time of at least 24 hours, so that most GMs who check on daily will be able to respond to that.

From what I understand, this week 1 simulation was because Nerd was over at Sox's house from the sleepover, and they decided to "force" / "squeeze" in the simulation during that period, which as we now see, didn't work. I know you have an outside life, which is why EF90 and others are trying to do most of the online work (sliders, etc.) leaving Sox to do mostly Simming and confirming trades processed, positions processed, etc.

LSHMFGSFO.

You say that we need to give you more time.... 2 weeks ain't enough?? Ruskie, apparently you are the only one who had difficulties getting his requirements in on time...

If you call spending 5 HOURS fixing all of your mistakes with the problem trades, inputting them, inputting regular trades, Depth Charts, Sliders, I wouldn't call hat squeezing it in. We wasted our entire saturday night, so you guys can just complain more.

Most of the online work is done by me, if you haven't noticed... Most of the damn work is done by me in general...

If w stat a new league, or reset this one, then i need alot more help then I am getting now.

eaglesfan90 wrote:

Ruskie89 wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

never mind, sim isnt today

uh, ok lol

I'll still try to send in my d/c today, and when I get word of Wayne, I'll send in my sliders.

Can you send them in ASAP so I can get them to Sox to input them before the sim?, also, I think we maybe should sim late Sunday or Monday, seeing as, pending the problem trades, I have no idea what my team looks like:bball:

http://madden08league.forummotion.com/league-news-and-announcements-f1/bills-fins-bucs-t4022-15.htm

Yes, I'm the only one Rolling Eyes

First off, I was waiting to submit my Depth Chart because I was waiting for word on Wayne, AND my player position changes (which, of course, only the simmer can tell me for sure, and confirm that it is done). In addition, I was waiting on those things and my depth chart to send my sliders.

However, I believe I did both of those things in adequate time.

Again, I reiterate, You only announced (in a thread that doesn't pertain to it) yesterday that you would sim yesterday, most GMs would like to have a date set ahead of time, as in, today, Sunday, you set Tuesday as the sim day. THAT'S what people want. A freaking concrete date to do something. As in, you aren't going to say "oh people, the 2009 rookie draft is in 3 months, be ready" then announce and start it in one night. Give people TIME to process it. This isn't for me, it's for the majority of GMs.

Again, I had to wait to the last minute to to someone not confirming my position changes...

Quote:

If you call spending 5 HOURS fixing all of your mistakes with the problem trades, inputting them, inputting regular trades, Depth Charts, Sliders, I wouldn't call hat squeezing it in. We wasted our entire saturday night, so you guys can just complain more.

I kinda doubt you spend every minute of those 5 hours working on those problems. You and Nerd probably chilled, but did spend plenty of time working on it....... unfortunatly, you didn't confirm position changes, and from what I hear, you didn't process all the trades (wow, preseason all over again). Perhaps if you broke up the workload (position changes, team captains, trade processed, etc.) to say....... 30 minutes a day for a week, wouldn't have been a problem.

In addition, in another league, for the most part, Iruleall and myself, with some help from other individuals, have, for a week now, run the fantasy draft. That draft would require me to spend most of my day after school assisting / doing autopicks, big boards, finding players, etc. As in, for autopicks, we actually busted our asses trying to figure out who to pick, who was already taken, etc. My whole week after school, most of the time when I was at my laptop, was devoted to doing that. It wouldn't be a problem, if most / all GMs showed up to make their pick. Including, oh, you?

So yeah, I kinda know what 5+ hours of work on a sim league feels like. I did it the entire week this past week, and managed to have most of Friday, and today off (Iruleall continued, god bless his soul).

As for Help, I posted a link where Dragon suggested how we can help you more, in addition, as I've stated, I think that you should get reliable admins who can run all / as much as possible of the online stuff, so that you simply sim, and then confirm processed trades and position changes, and post stats, injuries, etc. How can you complain about THAT when we physically cannot be there to help you? Dragon made a suggestion thread, the other Admins need to get together and work something out. If this means you leaving the TC, I'm fine, we'll get another GM to fill in. But to "rush" doing stuff and not finishing it all (trades, positions, etc.) before simming was a mistake, and not giving a proper adequate deadline was also a mistake and lack of communication.

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Baltimore Ravens

Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:42 am

Steve_Smith_#12 wrote:

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

To a degree, I agree with this, but if this happens, I am sorry, but i believe SERIOUS "in charge" changes need to be made.

I do believe TD and EF should keep their spots. I do not believe Nerd should hold any decision making power when it comes to administratiion. Especially since, to me, it seems like it's a SERIOUS conflict of interest, as I think my post of our AIM conversation, illustrates how he is certainly taking advantage of a friendship to manipulate power within this league.

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Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 am

Also, there was claim about me being upset cuz my team lost in week one. NOT true at all. I sent in my sliders like i was asked, WAY before the deadline...was there even a deadline posted? I even backed Ruskie up though on the need to know about the situation of Wayne and other "suppose to be" cloned players that were injured, something I felt needed to be addressed before the sim, in the post you were addressing the sim. But it wasn't. It seems it was completely ignored and disregarded, just as EF90's advice was.

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SoxNats08 · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:46 am

Fine. If we fuck every decision up, and do everything against what members want, and disregard th opinions of other admins, then you guys dont have to be a part of this place aymore.

You can leave. And if we restart, you dont have to come back. Thanks.

From Sox: You all call nerd a nobody and say he isn't an admin and stuff, and thats true. First off, I made that post for the sim while I was on his account. Secondly, and more importantly, without nerd I wouldn't have been able to do ANYTHING.

Ruskie, I agree with what you had to say at the end of your post, but you shouldn't be so quick to blame me... If you think about it, if you guys had the right depth charts and didn't trade players you didn't have like Darren Sharper, I wouldn't have to waste hours doing this.

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2007 Washington Redskins 13-3-0, SUPER BOWL WINNERS

Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:48 am

SoxNats08 wrote:

Fine. If we fuck every decision up, and do everything against what members want, and disregard th opinions of other admins, then you guys dont have to be a part of this place aymore.

You can leave. And if we restart, you dont have to come back. Thanks.

From Sox: You all call nerd a nobody and say he isn't an admin and stuff, and thats true. First off, I made that post for the sim while I was on his account. Secondly, and more importantly, without nerd I wouldn't have been able to do ANYTHING.

Ruskie, I agree with what you had to say at the end of your post, but you shouldn't be so quick to blame me... If you think about it, if you guys had the right depth charts and didn't trade players you didn't have like Darren Sharper, I wouldn't have to waste hours doing this.

Who said anything about you "fucking up everything" we're addressing what happened TONIGHT, this incident.

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Ruskie89 · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:48 am

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Never said those were fake...

Well..then what are you talking about. You called me a liar, now tell me what I lied about.

As far as my apologies, I would think anyone who has been active here can tell you they existed, including EF, TD, mk, Ruskie and others.

The issue is, we can't reference them because they existed near the end of threads that were considered problemsome when I apologized for my overreacting or actions, etc. And those threads have since been deleted.

Why I would lie about something that trivial is beyond me.

Well, you said that we never gave you a warning for the sim. In fact, there was a post at 1:24 PM...

You also called nerd a nobody, which is a lie as he holds more gravitas than you in the league. You call him an ordinary GM, but he has the highest non-admin position in the league.

--SoxNats08

1:24 PM....... then that night, you sim. Do you honestly think that most GMs, on a saturday, would have time to check in, see that post (WHICH, I reiterate, was listed in a thread title "Bills, Fins, Bucs", WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SIMMING, and as a result would still be unaware of it), would have time to do sliders, and then guess their depth chart b/c they don't know if position changes are confirmed, or if their trades were processed?

Sox, the biggest issue here, is that when you set a concrete deadline, you MUST post it AT LEAST a full day in advance, so that the majority of GMs who are active and are on daily may check in and see it (again, it's President's day weekend, so several GMs may be out of town) and in the course of one day do what needs to be done. In addition, you MUST post it where it may be SEEN, not in a post in the thread talking about 3 teams that don't have GMs. And finally, several GMs I am sure, myself included, waited to post sliders and depth chart because we NEEDED confirmation on position changes, trades, etc. Which we ere NOT GIVEN, PERIOD.

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Baltimore Ravens

BarackObama4Prez · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:51 am

Wes wrote:

Steve_Smith_#12 wrote:

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

To a degree, I agree with this, but if this happens, I am sorry, but i believe SERIOUS "in charge" changes need to be made.

I do believe TD and EF should keep their spots. I do not believe Nerd should hold any decision making power when it comes to administratiion. Especially since, to me, it seems like it's a SERIOUS conflict of interest, as I think my post of our AIM conversation, illustrates how he is certainly taking advantage of a friendship to manipulate power within this league.

Nerd here, on nerd's account.

Sox is siting right next to m as I am posting this. Annd we both believe that that last statemet you made about me manipulating our friendship for power--is BS. Do you know what you are talking about? Do you even know me well enough to mak that kind of judgement? I wouldn't do that to a friend just to gain power in a MADDEN LEAGUE.

And thats what it all is when it comes down to it. A Madden League.

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I made 'em^^

Ruskie89 · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:52 am

SoxNats08 wrote:

Ruskie, I agree with what you had to say at the end of your post, but you shouldn't be so quick to blame me... If you think about it, if you guys had the right depth charts and didn't trade players you didn't have like Darren Sharper, I wouldn't have to waste hours doing this.

I agree with you 100%. There are too many GMs who don't keep track and fuck up, and you have to pay for it, and I apologize on their behalf of negligence. There should be some sort of "punishment" (lose of picks, contract points, FA points, etc.) for constant repeat offenders. However, I personally was waiting for confirmation of position changes before I could submit my depth chart. This was not, and still is not confirmed, and I don't know if it was used for week 1 (right now, I feel it was not).

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Baltimore Ravens

Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:52 am

BarackObama4Prez wrote:

Wes wrote:

Steve_Smith_#12 wrote:

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

To a degree, I agree with this, but if this happens, I am sorry, but i believe SERIOUS "in charge" changes need to be made.

I do believe TD and EF should keep their spots. I do not believe Nerd should hold any decision making power when it comes to administratiion. Especially since, to me, it seems like it's a SERIOUS conflict of interest, as I think my post of our AIM conversation, illustrates how he is certainly taking advantage of a friendship to manipulate power within this league.

Nerd here, on nerd's account.

Sox is siting right next to m as I am posting this. Annd we both believe that that last statemet you made about me manipulating our friendship for power--is BS. Do you know what you are talking about? Do you even know me well enough to mak that kind of judgement? I wouldn't do that to a friend just to gain power in a MADDEN LEAGUE.

And thats what it all is when it comes down to it. A Madden League.

Yes, I know what I'm talking about, and it's based on the actions and reactions of both you and Sox.

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Wes · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:54 am

Ruskie89 wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

Ruskie, I agree with what you had to say at the end of your post, but you shouldn't be so quick to blame me... If you think about it, if you guys had the right depth charts and didn't trade players you didn't have like Darren Sharper, I wouldn't have to waste hours doing this.

I agree with you 100%. There are too many GMs who don't keep track and fuck up, and you have to pay for it, and I apologize on their behalf of negligence. There should be some sort of "punishment" (lose of picks, contract points, FA points, etc.) for constant repeat offenders. However, I personally was waiting for confirmation of position changes before I could submit my depth chart. This was not, and still is not confirmed, and I don't know if it was used for week 1 (right now, I feel it was not).

Also, Sox, i agree with you on this sentiment, that there are a lot of Gm's that .... well suck at being a GM in the respect that they do nothing in the right formats, they don't do things on time, etc. But I am not, and have not been one of those poeple, I, nor Ruskie, nor others who aren't at failure to do things properly deserve to be slighted as a result of some Gm's lazyness and poor activity.

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BarackObama4Prez · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:58 am

Wes wrote:

Yes, I know what I'm talking about, and it's based on the actions and reactions of both you and Sox.

No, you dont know what you are talking about...

You haven't ever met me. You barely know my name.

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I made 'em^^

Ruskie89 · Subject: Re: Ultimatum: The Final Proposition Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:58 am

BarackObama4Prez wrote:

And thats what it all is when it comes down to it. A Madden League.

YES! And give us GMs time to adjust, and prepare and know when deadlines are due! So that way we don't have headaches and everyone is happy!

Honestly, would you tell people in 3 months we're having the 09 draft, then say in 2 weeks we are, then in two weeks on that Saturday, announce in a thread not related to the draft that the draft would start that very day, and do it?

Have you gone to a class, the teacher stats a paper will be due in 2 weeks, then on that Friday, says the Paper is due at the end of the day as the final deadline?

No, we need advanced warning on a concrete date.

Honestly guys, The biggest issue I see right now is that Sox and Nerd tried to "force" that first simulation to be done tonight.

Granted, we have backup files, so we can go back, finish confirming position changes, make sure depth charts are accurate, and finish processing trades.

With that in mind, we honestly have to stop this bullshit of announcing the deadline on the day it will occur.

That's the biggest issue in my opinion.

If you said on Thursday "Hey guys, I'm simming on Saturday night" in a thread clearly marked "Week 1 simming", then CONFIRMED our position changes, processed trades, made sure our depth charts match what's on your system, etc. There wouldn't be an issue. Most GMs would have had time to adjust. Less than 12 hour warning is NOT enough time to adjust, ESPECIALLY when you don't confirm vital information.

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Baltimore Ravens