Ultimatum: The Final Proposition

This has gone on for too long. Too long have I taken shit from members and dealt with it. Too long have I managed everyone's team for them. Too long have I been pushed over by GMs, and have done every single bit of work for this league. Too long have I handled every poor situation, carrying us through every problem. For every mistake, I have been criticized, scolded, blamed. For every mistake I have been chastised, like I was the reason for all of our issues.

If I give you the type of crap you give me, this league wouldn't have made it past the first week of season 1. Certain members have been hell, and I am sure you all know who I am talking about. This has to come to an end. This will come to an end. July 9, 2007-February 17, 2008. 222 days. 222 days, too long.

This is a madden league. When all of you registered, I hope you understood that this league's goal is to be as realistic to the NFL as possible. In the NFL, players get injured in the pre-season. Teams lose. The NFL is a professional organization. I'm a 14 year old kid. I hope you take that into consideration. For all of you guys who appreciate the things I do, I am extremely grateful. But for the few who don't, I suggest you think of your actions and words. I have three options for the future of this league:


A. We continue this league. But in order to do this, we all need to do our part. GMs need to be organized with their rosters, meet the proper deadlines, and follow all given rules. This will be a totally different attitude then what we have now. It will b much more focused, and much more efficient in operation.

B. We scrap and completely re-set on 360. Same site, but new rosters and again, much more focused and organized, so we don't make the same mistakes we have made that led to this dire situation.

C. Over. We delete the forum, and move on with our lives.

I hope you guys listen to yourselves and make the right decision.

--SoxNats08 and BarackObama4Prez

I know i'm the inspiration for this Post, as i'm sure Ruskie is as well.

I don't have any qualms with this post at all because I think it's warranted.

I do think this is finally the stance you needed to take. But I feel you're taking it on the wrong platform. You're blaming me and Sox right now, right here, for a situation YOU did cause. Maybe me and Ruskie, (which i've apologized for and tried to help out since) causes static and frustration before.

But the situation we are dealing with RIGHT THIS SECOND, is of no fault but your own.

I believe that if communication was more open, if Sox didn't rush to do simulations and such, and simply confirmed, got the trades processed, etc. We wouldn't be having an issue. These last two times (Week 1 and Preseason) was the result of Sox wanting to sim on THAT particular night. Give GMs adequate warning, and we wouldn't have these problems.

I prefer option A, but with this in addition: More communication. More TIME to get those deadlines done. I'm not talking about resigning or any of that, I'm talking, when you decide to sim, just GIVE the GMs a heads up of adequate time of at least 24 hours, so that most GMs who check on daily will be able to respond to that.

From what I understand, this week 1 simulation was because Nerd was over at Sox's house from the sleepover, and they decided to "force" / "squeeze" in the simulation during that period, which as we now see, didn't work. I know you have an outside life, which is why EF90 and others are trying to do most of the online work (sliders, etc.) leaving Sox to do mostly Simming and confirming trades processed, positions processed, etc.

Wes wrote:

I know i'm the inspiration for this Post, as i'm sure Ruskie is as well.

I don't have any qualms with this post at all because I think it's warranted.

I do think this is finally the stance you needed to take. But I feel you're taking it on the wrong platform. You're blaming me and Sox right now, right here, for a situation YOU did cause. Maybe me and Ruskie, (which i've apologized for and tried to help out since) causes static and frustration before.

But the situation we are dealing with RIGHT THIS SECOND, is of no fault but your own.

Excuse me, why would I blame myself? Did you even read the thing?

You say Ruskie is an inspiration for this post. Wrong. Ruskie has no been a problem as of late. The only problem I see is the one that has just responded.

And you say we caused the situation.... YOU, my friend, caused it. You and your damn whining 24/7/365.

You also mention how you said you "apologized" and tried to help the league. When where and how? All you have done is vandalize the forum, post LIES, and wreak havoc among all members.

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

I know i'm the inspiration for this Post, as i'm sure Ruskie is as well.

I don't have any qualms with this post at all because I think it's warranted.

I do think this is finally the stance you needed to take. But I feel you're taking it on the wrong platform. You're blaming me and Sox right now, right here, for a situation YOU did cause. Maybe me and Ruskie, (which i've apologized for and tried to help out since) causes static and frustration before.

But the situation we are dealing with RIGHT THIS SECOND, is of no fault but your own.

Excuse me, why would I blame myself? Did you even read the thing?

You say Ruskie is an inspiration for this post. Wrong. Ruskie has no been a problem as of late. The only problem I see is the one that has just responded.

And you say we caused the situation.... YOU, my friend, caused it. You and your damn whining 24/7/365.

You also mention how you said you "apologized" and tried to help the league. When where and how? All you have done is vandalize the forum, post LIES, and wreak havoc among all members.

Post Lies? what Lies have a posted? huh? What lies? I've apologized on several occasions, publically as well.

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

I know i'm the inspiration for this Post, as i'm sure Ruskie is as well.

I don't have any qualms with this post at all because I think it's warranted.

I do think this is finally the stance you needed to take. But I feel you're taking it on the wrong platform. You're blaming me and Sox right now, right here, for a situation YOU did cause. Maybe me and Ruskie, (which i've apologized for and tried to help out since) causes static and frustration before.

But the situation we are dealing with RIGHT THIS SECOND, is of no fault but your own.

Excuse me, why would I blame myself? Did you even read the thing?

You say Ruskie is an inspiration for this post. Wrong. Ruskie has no been a problem as of late. The only problem I see is the one that has just responded.

And you say we caused the situation.... YOU, my friend, caused it. You and your damn whining 24/7/365.

You also mention how you said you "apologized" and tried to help the league. When where and how? All you have done is vandalize the forum, post LIES, and wreak havoc among all members.

To some extent, I agree, Wes doesn't get along with some particular members. However, what you just posted was a lie.

https://madden08league.forummotion.com/league-discussion-f2/the-proposal-i-made-to-sox-t3832.htm

Here's one of the major ways I tried to help out recently.

https://madden08league.forummotion.com/league-discussion-f2/the-proposal-i-made-to-sox-t3832.htm

I've also apologized to EF90, TD Jesus, And you on a few different Occassions, when I've acted on emotion.

I had a LONG conversation not long ago with you on AIM where I gave you a VERY indepth apology and make that proposal to you that I listed above. I came to you with concerns instead of making them public, so that we could work through them together. But any time i ever have an opinion on something it's taken as "bitching."

Ruskie89 wrote:

I believe that if communication was more open, if Sox didn't rush to do simulations and such, and simply confirmed, got the trades processed, etc. We wouldn't be having an issue. These last two times (Week 1 and Preseason) was the result of Sox wanting to sim on THAT particular night. Give GMs adequate warning, and we wouldn't have these problems.

I prefer option A, but with this in addition: More communication. More TIME to get those deadlines done. I'm not talking about resigning or any of that, I'm talking, when you decide to sim, just GIVE the GMs a heads up of adequate time of at least 24 hours, so that most GMs who check on daily will be able to respond to that.

From what I understand, this week 1 simulation was because Nerd was over at Sox's house from the sleepover, and they decided to "force" / "squeeze" in the simulation during that period, which as we now see, didn't work. I know you have an outside life, which is why EF90 and others are trying to do most of the online work (sliders, etc.) leaving Sox to do mostly Simming and confirming trades processed, positions processed, etc.

LSHMFGSFO.

You say that we need to give you more time.... 2 weeks ain't enough?? Ruskie, apparently you are the only one who had difficulties getting his requirements in on time...

If you call spending 5 HOURS fixing all of your mistakes with the problem trades, inputting them, inputting regular trades, Depth Charts, Sliders, I wouldn't call hat squeezing it in. We wasted our entire saturday night, so you guys can just complain more.

Most of the online work is done by me, if you haven't noticed... Most of the damn work is done by me in general...

If w stat a new league, or reset this one, then i need alot more help then I am getting now.

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Sox here:

You guys have not given me the support I need to run this league. You say that I should have processed the trades, well the reason they are problem trades is because you guys messed up in YOUR trades...

Now, this is what I would want to do:

I would want to go with option B. In terms of convenience, its easiest for me to do the sim on the 360... Its always hard getting on to the PS2. But of course this will get ignored because its never whats easy for me, its whats best for you guys, isn't it?

Wes wrote:

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Never said those were fake...

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Never said those were fake...

Well..then what are you talking about. You called me a liar, now tell me what I lied about.

As far as my apologies, I would think anyone who has been active here can tell you they existed, including EF, TD, mk, Ruskie and others.

The issue is, we can't reference them because they existed near the end of threads that were considered problemsome when I apologized for my overreacting or actions, etc. And those threads have since been deleted.

Why I would lie about something that trivial is beyond me.

Wes wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Never said those were fake...

Well..then what are you talking about. You called me a liar, now tell me what I lied about.

As far as my apologies, I would think anyone who has been active here can tell you they existed, including EF, TD, mk, Ruskie and others.

The issue is, we can't reference them because they existed near the end of threads that were considered problemsome when I apologized for my overreacting or actions, etc. And those threads have since been deleted.

Why I would lie about something that trivial is beyond me.

Well, you said that we never gave you a warning for the sim. In fact, there was a post at 1:24 PM...

You also called nerd a nobody, which is a lie as he holds more gravitas than you in the league. You call him an ordinary GM, but he has the highest non-admin position in the league.

--SoxNats08

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Never said those were fake...

Well..then what are you talking about. You called me a liar, now tell me what I lied about.

As far as my apologies, I would think anyone who has been active here can tell you they existed, including EF, TD, mk, Ruskie and others.

The issue is, we can't reference them because they existed near the end of threads that were considered problemsome when I apologized for my overreacting or actions, etc. And those threads have since been deleted.

Why I would lie about something that trivial is beyond me.

Well, you said that we never gave you a warning for the sim. In fact, there was a post at 1:24 PM...

You also called nerd a nobody, which is a lie as he holds more gravitas than you in the league. You call him an ordinary GM, but he has the highest non-admin position in the league.

--SoxNats08

Um..I called him a nobody in reference to Administration. I'm a nobody, Ruskie is a nobody, every GM except TD, you, Dream and EF90 is a nobody in reference to the fact they are admin's.

And, you still continue to ignore the point we are arguing, i didn't "lie about saying you didn't give me a warning." first of all, i don't recall saying you didn't give me one, but what i do recall saying is that I believe many GM's were likely under the assumption, you were going to take the advice of your fellow administrator who adviced, for logical reasoning, waiting until late afternoon sunday or Monday, to sim week 1, so that everything could be 100% sure that it was up to date and such.

So, I didn't lie about anything at all. I also didn't deny calling Nerd a nobody. I didn't exclude ANY part of our conversation on AIM from the posting. And for good reason.

It illustrates the miscommunication and disregard for GM concern that I was talking to TD about.

You are obviously taking more concern about what Nerd thinks, and only nerd, than what your admins or the majority of the rest of the GM's think. This decision, as far s you've allowed it to appear, was made Based on ONE Sole NON-Admin.

You claim that "no one was on to read EF90's Post" But i saw it, Kyle Saw it, Ruskie Saw it, SS 89 saw it, i'm sure we're not the only ones that saw it.

You also claim that "EF90 wont care" But I would think to the contrary. That if he didn't care he wouldn't have posted the advice to wait until tomorrow afternoon.

So in reality, i didn't lie about ANYTHING, so....doesn't that make YOU the liar?

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

Fact is, with all do respect to you both, over the last few days, i've witnessed ALOT of "tough guy talk" from Nerd, as though he was the one in charge, while you disregarded the advice and concern of your fellow Administrators.

This, what's going on right now, is another direct result of that.

SoxNats08 wrote:

Ruskie89 wrote:

I believe that if communication was more open, if Sox didn't rush to do simulations and such, and simply confirmed, got the trades processed, etc. We wouldn't be having an issue. These last two times (Week 1 and Preseason) was the result of Sox wanting to sim on THAT particular night. Give GMs adequate warning, and we wouldn't have these problems.

I prefer option A, but with this in addition: More communication. More TIME to get those deadlines done. I'm not talking about resigning or any of that, I'm talking, when you decide to sim, just GIVE the GMs a heads up of adequate time of at least 24 hours, so that most GMs who check on daily will be able to respond to that.

From what I understand, this week 1 simulation was because Nerd was over at Sox's house from the sleepover, and they decided to "force" / "squeeze" in the simulation during that period, which as we now see, didn't work. I know you have an outside life, which is why EF90 and others are trying to do most of the online work (sliders, etc.) leaving Sox to do mostly Simming and confirming trades processed, positions processed, etc.

LSHMFGSFO.

You say that we need to give you more time.... 2 weeks ain't enough?? Ruskie, apparently you are the only one who had difficulties getting his requirements in on time...

If you call spending 5 HOURS fixing all of your mistakes with the problem trades, inputting them, inputting regular trades, Depth Charts, Sliders, I wouldn't call hat squeezing it in. We wasted our entire saturday night, so you guys can just complain more.

Most of the online work is done by me, if you haven't noticed... Most of the damn work is done by me in general...

If w stat a new league, or reset this one, then i need alot more help then I am getting now.

eaglesfan90 wrote:

Ruskie89 wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

never mind, sim isnt today

uh, ok lol

I'll still try to send in my d/c today, and when I get word of Wayne, I'll send in my sliders.

Can you send them in ASAP so I can get them to Sox to input them before the sim?, also, I think we maybe should sim late Sunday or Monday, seeing as, pending the problem trades, I have no idea what my team looks like:bball:

https://madden08league.forummotion.com/league-news-and-announcements-f1/bills-fins-bucs-t4022-15.htm

Yes, I'm the only one

First off, I was waiting to submit my Depth Chart because I was waiting for word on Wayne, AND my player position changes (which, of course, only the simmer can tell me for sure, and confirm that it is done). In addition, I was waiting on those things and my depth chart to send my sliders.

However, I believe I did both of those things in adequate time.

Again, I reiterate, You only announced (in a thread that doesn't pertain to it) yesterday that you would sim yesterday, most GMs would like to have a date set ahead of time, as in, today, Sunday, you set Tuesday as the sim day. THAT'S what people want. A freaking concrete date to do something. As in, you aren't going to say "oh people, the 2009 rookie draft is in 3 months, be ready" then announce and start it in one night. Give people TIME to process it. This isn't for me, it's for the majority of GMs.

Again, I had to wait to the last minute to to someone not confirming my position changes...

Quote :

If you call spending 5 HOURS fixing all of your mistakes with the problem trades, inputting them, inputting regular trades, Depth Charts, Sliders, I wouldn't call hat squeezing it in. We wasted our entire saturday night, so you guys can just complain more.

I kinda doubt you spend every minute of those 5 hours working on those problems. You and Nerd probably chilled, but did spend plenty of time working on it....... unfortunatly, you didn't confirm position changes, and from what I hear, you didn't process all the trades (wow, preseason all over again). Perhaps if you broke up the workload (position changes, team captains, trade processed, etc.) to say....... 30 minutes a day for a week, wouldn't have been a problem.

In addition, in another league, for the most part, Iruleall and myself, with some help from other individuals, have, for a week now, run the fantasy draft. That draft would require me to spend most of my day after school assisting / doing autopicks, big boards, finding players, etc. As in, for autopicks, we actually busted our asses trying to figure out who to pick, who was already taken, etc. My whole week after school, most of the time when I was at my laptop, was devoted to doing that. It wouldn't be a problem, if most / all GMs showed up to make their pick. Including, oh, you?

So yeah, I kinda know what 5+ hours of work on a sim league feels like. I did it the entire week this past week, and managed to have most of Friday, and today off (Iruleall continued, god bless his soul).

As for Help, I posted a link where Dragon suggested how we can help you more, in addition, as I've stated, I think that you should get reliable admins who can run all / as much as possible of the online stuff, so that you simply sim, and then confirm processed trades and position changes, and post stats, injuries, etc. How can you complain about THAT when we physically cannot be there to help you? Dragon made a suggestion thread, the other Admins need to get together and work something out. If this means you leaving the TC, I'm fine, we'll get another GM to fill in. But to "rush" doing stuff and not finishing it all (trades, positions, etc.) before simming was a mistake, and not giving a proper adequate deadline was also a mistake and lack of communication.

Steve_Smith_#12 wrote:

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

To a degree, I agree with this, but if this happens, I am sorry, but i believe SERIOUS "in charge" changes need to be made.

I do believe TD and EF should keep their spots. I do not believe Nerd should hold any decision making power when it comes to administratiion. Especially since, to me, it seems like it's a SERIOUS conflict of interest, as I think my post of our AIM conversation, illustrates how he is certainly taking advantage of a friendship to manipulate power within this league.

Also, there was claim about me being upset cuz my team lost in week one. NOT true at all. I sent in my sliders like i was asked, WAY before the deadline...was there even a deadline posted? I even backed Ruskie up though on the need to know about the situation of Wayne and other "suppose to be" cloned players that were injured, something I felt needed to be addressed before the sim, in the post you were addressing the sim. But it wasn't. It seems it was completely ignored and disregarded, just as EF90's advice was.

Fine. If we fuck every decision up, and do everything against what members want, and disregard th opinions of other admins, then you guys dont have to be a part of this place aymore.

You can leave. And if we restart, you dont have to come back. Thanks.

From Sox: You all call nerd a nobody and say he isn't an admin and stuff, and thats true. First off, I made that post for the sim while I was on his account. Secondly, and more importantly, without nerd I wouldn't have been able to do ANYTHING.

Ruskie, I agree with what you had to say at the end of your post, but you shouldn't be so quick to blame me... If you think about it, if you guys had the right depth charts and didn't trade players you didn't have like Darren Sharper, I wouldn't have to waste hours doing this.

SoxNats08 wrote:

Fine. If we fuck every decision up, and do everything against what members want, and disregard th opinions of other admins, then you guys dont have to be a part of this place aymore.

You can leave. And if we restart, you dont have to come back. Thanks.

From Sox: You all call nerd a nobody and say he isn't an admin and stuff, and thats true. First off, I made that post for the sim while I was on his account. Secondly, and more importantly, without nerd I wouldn't have been able to do ANYTHING.

Ruskie, I agree with what you had to say at the end of your post, but you shouldn't be so quick to blame me... If you think about it, if you guys had the right depth charts and didn't trade players you didn't have like Darren Sharper, I wouldn't have to waste hours doing this.

Who said anything about you "fucking up everything" we're addressing what happened TONIGHT, this incident.

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

Wes wrote:

Also, please enlighten me, what Lies have I been posting?

If you're talking about the AIM conversation I just posted not long ago. I got the Print Screens to prove its authenticity.

Never said those were fake...

Well..then what are you talking about. You called me a liar, now tell me what I lied about.

As far as my apologies, I would think anyone who has been active here can tell you they existed, including EF, TD, mk, Ruskie and others.

The issue is, we can't reference them because they existed near the end of threads that were considered problemsome when I apologized for my overreacting or actions, etc. And those threads have since been deleted.

Why I would lie about something that trivial is beyond me.

Well, you said that we never gave you a warning for the sim. In fact, there was a post at 1:24 PM...

You also called nerd a nobody, which is a lie as he holds more gravitas than you in the league. You call him an ordinary GM, but he has the highest non-admin position in the league.

--SoxNats08

1:24 PM....... then that night, you sim. Do you honestly think that most GMs, on a saturday, would have time to check in, see that post (WHICH, I reiterate, was listed in a thread title "Bills, Fins, Bucs", WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SIMMING, and as a result would still be unaware of it), would have time to do sliders, and then guess their depth chart b/c they don't know if position changes are confirmed, or if their trades were processed?

Sox, the biggest issue here, is that when you set a concrete deadline, you MUST post it AT LEAST a full day in advance, so that the majority of GMs who are active and are on daily may check in and see it (again, it's President's day weekend, so several GMs may be out of town) and in the course of one day do what needs to be done. In addition, you MUST post it where it may be SEEN, not in a post in the thread talking about 3 teams that don't have GMs. And finally, several GMs I am sure, myself included, waited to post sliders and depth chart because we NEEDED confirmation on position changes, trades, etc. Which we ere NOT GIVEN, PERIOD.

Wes wrote:

Steve_Smith_#12 wrote:

I personally think everything needs to be dropped and the league needs to be restarted on a 360. It makes the most sense, especially if Sox has the system available to him at all time where he can process the trades and changes as they come to him.

Everyone drops everything, everything resets, and the league takes a new stance and everybody does their part to make things work.

To a degree, I agree with this, but if this happens, I am sorry, but i believe SERIOUS "in charge" changes need to be made.

I do believe TD and EF should keep their spots. I do not believe Nerd should hold any decision making power when it comes to administratiion. Especially since, to me, it seems like it's a SERIOUS conflict of interest, as I think my post of our AIM conversation, illustrates how he is certainly taking advantage of a friendship to manipulate power within this league.

Nerd here, on nerd's account.

Sox is siting right next to m as I am posting this. Annd we both believe that that last statemet you made about me manipulating our friendship for power--is BS. Do you know what you are talking about? Do you even know me well enough to mak that kind of judgement? I wouldn't do that to a friend just to gain power in a MADDEN LEAGUE.

And thats what it all is when it comes down to it. A Madden League.